Dr Schwarzer's Annus mirabilis year - Interview No4

*

Interview on Quantum Gravity and Einstein’s famous Moon problem, the theory of perspectivity.

*

Troy: What was the quote that Einstein was quoted as saying in respect to the moon? What was the exact wording?

Norbert: He said it in German, but in English, “Do you really believe that the moon isn’t there when nobody looks?” 

Troy:   So what did he mean at that time, and what was the problem at that point of time with the knowledge of back then?

Norbert: It is how you interpret quantum results and the whole measurement process. You could just say, something is in an undisturbed quantum state that it is kind of in limbo, in a space time where it doesn’t need to be there. The moment you measure it, it manifests itself, this is what they call the collapse of the wave function. Where all of the possible solutions being there at the same time suddenly collapse to one thing and this is the one you measure. It is all just probability. 

Einstein had a problem with this because he said, ok, if I accept this for smaller things, where to stop? So let’s take the moon, as long as I do not look at it, which is a kind of measurement, it is not there, really? There is an interpretation problem, it’s just how do you interpret things? 

Well, everybody says that Einstein is wrong here and that the Copenhagen interpretation is the right thing to do this. But I don’t think so. If you derive quantum theory from quantum gravity, from the Einstein/Hilbert action, you see that there are so many paths to obtain quantum equations, different ones even. Typical ones, but slightly different ones. That you also have options to linearize these things so to allow for additivity, superposition of the solutions. And it is extreme fine tuning that is necessary to have this additivity. If you then do a rough measurement process you disturb this situation, this fine tuning and additivity goes away, and only one solution remains simply due to nonlinearity. 

Nonlinearity forces you to make a decision, well the system has to make a decision.  And I have to admit, it is still very difficult to grasp, but if you see the math, the nonlinearity coming out from the Einstein-Hilbert quantum gravity, the quantum part, then you can see the two options. You can handle it in the linear way having the additivity and you can handle it the other way where you have the nonlinearity and then no additivity, no superposition possibilities.  Decision making is switching between those two. There are also other options within there, how you can obtain quantum equations from just this one source. And all those many possibilities could be interpreted as perspectives.

Troy: So what is the implication of the observer effect in your opinion at the philosophical level? And is it your opinion or is it really now more a math interpretation?

Norbert: Never trust your psychologist, that is the conclusion. There is a very fundamental uncertainty in the way that we receive and digest information. In the way we give away information. So if you try to explain something to me, you can try what ever you want, I will never be able to understand it in exactly the way you do. Simply because there are so many perspectives to see the information you deliver. To digest it, to process it.

Troy: So, at a higher level, all these perspectives would be summed up together and you would get an overall big picture?

Norbert: Yes, if you have infinitely many information for something then of course you get the correct picture, but this is only then, and of course as this is impossible you have the fundamental uncertainty with just everything. What we perceive depends on what angle we choose to look at it. So, the moon may be there, but we see it very differently, each and everyone of us – sees it in a different way. Einstein was kind of right, the moon probably is always there but only by looking at it we will get our own very personal, very private picture, and this changes every time we look at it. 

Troy: Our emotional state then, could impact how we interpret the picture as we look at the moon?

Norbert: Yes totally, and this holds not only just for the moon – but a person, a pet, a tree.

Troy: Wow.

Troy: Is there more than one quantum gravity solution? You talked about all the many different paths to get to quantum, and it occurred to me, well maybe there is more than one Quantum gravity solution too?

Norbert: Yes, interestingly, because when Hilbert did his variational problem, he just used the one possibility that gave him the Einstein field equations because this was his goal. Repeating his evaluations and leaving the variational path a little bit more free, like I have a variety of options to do this, especially with the scaled metric I can just variate for the scale which is just the volume. I can change the kernel a little bit. Just think, just vary a little bit more and you think – ‘Oh shit, all those damned quantum equations could come also out in slightly different ways with all these other possibilities, while the Einstein field equations do not change’. 

Troy: So would another way to say that be Hilbert’s derivation to the Einstein field equations was in effect an artificial constraint and that by un-constraining it, you find many other options?

Norbert: I do not want to blame Hilbert. He had a certain goal and he achieved it. He didn’t know about the other options as there was no need for him to look at it. There was no developed quantum theory in such a mathematical state that he would have had any chance to see that there is more he should look for. But yes, your formulation is correct in the sense that by putting away the boundaries that Hilbert used, going a bit more general you see the other options. 

Troy: The other thing I saw in that paper was about mass, new matter, regarding the theory of perspectivity, can you explain more?

Norbert: Yes, that is a strange thing. It depends on where the observer exists regarding the scaled metric, he can either see matter or he just sees a scaled metric. That is one of the strangest things where you can have a universe full of matter, or you have just a universe on which you find a scaled oscillating metric. So, if you were God in this universe you probably see no mass at all, mass is just an effect we see because we are not on that level. But this is really something I don’t like to put into words, because if you translate math, well try to, into a verbal something, its usually not as correct as it was in the math. It gets messy, and this is something where you present the math at a conference to a huge audience and say, “hey guys this is what I got out, you see, it depends on where the observer would be, on which level within this ensemble of possibilities in scaled metrics, non scaled metrics. You can either see a universe full of matter or you don’t see it. It’s a bit like the Unruh effect, where you have an accelerated something to see matter. Where suddenly matter is being produced as a relativistic effect. Here’s the same thing, just because it’s a perspective effect. It depends on the angle you look at something whether you see matter or whether you see something else, something which is not matter”. 

Troy: What is the impact or opportunity for the world? My first thought after listening to your answer there, is that first of all, it will allow us to philosophically ask lots of different questions. It’s like an opportunity here for us to explore?

Norbert: Well, let me put it like this, you can use all of this to, of course interpret the meaning of everything in a better way. Because having understood the fundamental workings of the universe a little better allows you to have a better guess about your purpose in this universe, right?

Does that sound logical to you?

Troy: Yes

Norbert: You can also use this stuff to produce better things. Helping mankind. Making life better, like in health care. Going for quantum gravity computers and solving the cancer problem. All this! I have already shown in my papers that this stuff, which seems to be rather mathematical, helps there along the way. But you can also just go and build more powerful weapons.

Troy:  You mention the Unruh effect and new matter, the Unruh effect could also be for creating matter that could potentially be used to create thrust and power systems?

Norbert: Yes and No. The Unruh effect will not give you this, but from the general quantum gravity equation one can extract the strange result that what we see as vacuum seems to be full of Energy, unlimited energy and there are a lot of other possibilities. You have three things: Better interpretation, Something to help humanity to survive – to go the next step/level, or to build weapons and wipe humanity out of existence. Three applications, make your choice!

Troy: Like three generation of particles?

Norbert: Well yes, but that is for a later paper discussion.